Comanche

11/21/2009

My personal observation (which is not in any way a historically researched and documented statement) is that those of us who were bilingual used to refer to Fort Stockton as "Comanchi" when speaking in Spanish and as "Fort Stockton" when speaking in English. But even that is not complete. I spoke in Spanish with younger family members and I referred to Fort Stockton as “Fort Stockton.” But with older people, such as my grandmother, I referred to it as “Comanchi.” With my parents and my aunts and uncles, I remember calling it "Comanchi" when I was quite young, but by the time I was in my teens I called it Fort Stockton when speaking to them in Spanish. I have not called Fort Stockton "Comanchi" since the 1970's when my grandmother died. I guess that the reason Fort Stockton was known (is known?) as "Comanche" probably has to do with the Comanche Springs located there.

I have noticed the location name "Comanche" in records for Terlingua families. For example, Ruperto Chavarria was born in Fort Stockton, but his marriage record shows his place of birth as Comanche. There is a Comanche, Texas. It is between Fort Stockton and Fort Worth. It is about 285 miles from Fort Stockton to Comanche, Texas and then yet about another 100 miles to Fort Worth. According to Wikipedia (which we know can have erroneous information since anyone can enter information) Cora, Texas, the county seat of Comanche county, was renamed Comanche, Texas in 1859; and Saint Gaul, the county seat of Pecos county, was renamed Fort Stockton, Texas on August 13, 1875. (If you follow the Saint Gaul link to Wikipedia then go to the fourth paragraph on the "history" secton of Fort Stockton it describes this. But it has a notation that there is no reference cited for this "fact.")

I think that people who spoke only English must have referred to Fort Stockton as "Comanche" too; and it would be interesting to learn when that usage occurred. But it looks like "Comanche" was used even in official records sometimes to refer to what is now Fort Stockton, county seat of Pecos county. I must point out that Ruperto Chavarria was married in Ojinaga so the record of his marriage was most likely recorded in Spanish. The record is not the actual document.

Also, it is true that the city of Fort Stockton is different from the military camp or fort called Fort Stockton. I don't believe the fort was ever the county seat of Pecos county. Am I wrong?

I would like to see what your experiences are. Did you call Fort Stockton "Comanche?" If so tell us about it. When did you do it? What language(s) were you speaking when you did it? If you stopped doing it, do you know when or why you stopped? Were you conscious of stopping calling Fort Stockton "Comanche" or did it just seem to happen? What do you know about the history of the habitation of the area around Comanche Springs?
We want to know? Please click on "Comments" above and share your contributions.

39 Comments

Ruben Franco Sandate

11/21/2009 11:33:58 am

In reference to county seat of Presidio. I believe it has always been Presidio.

Perhaps Comanche refers to a region or district or ranch.

My grandmother Anita Molinar Franco was born in Presido, but her birth records in 1892 refer to her birth as Dysart Ranch.

In the same reference. Shafter, Texas to Hispanics was known as "La Plazuela". Perhaps our tenacity prevails over occupation.

Antonio Santiago Franco

11/23/2009 09:00:37 am

Ruben, thanks for posting your information. I was not aware that La Plazuela was Shafter. I didn't even realize that people and places had dual names in the Old Terlingua area. I heard my dad and relatives say all these names many times but it never occurred to me that there might be dual names involved until in the early 1990's my dad said something about El Bo' that I thought was something about Bob Cartledge. I asked him if El Bo' was Bob Cartledge and he confirmed it. Then I began to wonder how many other dual names I had heard and did not know.

Some time in the early 2000's I asked my mother if they called Terlingua by another name. She said they called it "Chisos." That made more of the stories I heard sound less confusing.

Let us know of any other dual names for places or people or anything else that you know about. I am anxious to learn.

Doroteo Franco

1/5/2018 04:31:39 pm

My father, Doroteo Franco, was born in Buena Vista, Pecos County in 1914 but his family was from El Polvo and El Mulato. El Polvo is on the US side of the Rio Grande and El Mulato is on the Mexican side. It seems that the family lived on both sides of the river and it was fairly easy to cross.

El Polvo is now known as Redford. According to TEXAS LEDGENS: Redford & the Lost Mission of El Polvo, the town was founded in 1871. Native Americans and Mexicans knew it as Vado Rojo or Red Crossing because the bedrock; stones at the crossing and the area had and orange reddish hue.

When the community of El Polvo got a post office in 1911 the postal authorities insisted on an English name, so Vado Rojo was translated to Red Ford. The postal folks wrote it as one word; Redford. Redford, a town with three names.

Louisa

11/24/2009 07:57:03 am

Studdy Butte was known as Campo Nuevo.
I always thought Terlingua was for the whole area. I thought Chisos and Studdy
Butte (Campo Nuevo) were two villages in Terlingua.
When Cynta started the Terlingua reunions
I kept wondering what happened to Chisos,
when I asked ,they said you mean the Chisos Mines,so I said no more, until I figured it out.
When the mines closed and people moved to Alpine ,the new residents started buying land west of Pueblo Nuevo, there
is a Pueblo Viejo also in Alpine.
Right away people started calling the district with the new residents, Chisos Chiquito.

Louisa

11/25/2009 01:26:08 am

Correction; Chisos Chiquito was east of
pueblo nuevo.

Ayda Pena Perez

11/16/2010 04:05:30 am

A ranch hand from Fort Stockton(elCommanche)Tiburcio Herrera used to work in the area which he and son Frank Herrera referred to "la Sierra Madre"and would point towards the Marathon texas area.Was this the Chisos mountain range?During the early 1940's,men such as Tiburcio,Manuel and brother Chavez would stay for months at some of these ranches surrounding Marathon, Presidio, Alpine and all that area.Dressed in cowboy boots and hats,they must have worked with horses or were there large cattle ranges that area besides the mines?Ayda

Rosalba Herrera Nunez

7/11/2014 06:25:45 am

Did you know anything else about Tiburcio Herrera, he was my Grandfather and Frank is my uncle....my father is Mauricio Herrera. I know he was very fond of "La Sierra Madre" Just wondering if you have any other interesting stories about his past, I never had the opportunity to meet him and feel like I missed so much. Ayda how did you know them, are you still in that area ?

Antonio Franco link

7/15/2014 04:41:15 am

Rosalba, it saddens me greatly to have to tell you that our dear friend Ayda Pena Perez passed away in December of 2011. We do not have information on the Mauricio Herrera family. If you would like to send us information and photos. We can add them to this site.

You may go to this page to read more about Ayda: http://www.familiasdeterlingua.com/perez---robert.html

Melina Cannon

2/3/2011 04:55:23 am

I know that my great grandfather, born 1899, also referred to Ft. Stockton as Comanche, so you are absolutely on to something. I will do some asking around and see how he used it. (Died 1986) He was biligual, so I am unsure if you used it primarily in one or another languane.

mmcannon

2/3/2011 04:59:58 am

My great grandfather (1899-1986) also used Ft. Stockton and Comanche to describe the same place. I am not sure of the circumstances. He was biligual. Hope I am not duplicating an entry.

Antonio Franco

2/9/2011 03:04:18 pm

Melina, that is very interesting. Since you mention that it was your great grandfather who referred to Fort Stockton as "Comanche," does this mean that his was the last generation in your family to do this? In other words, did your grandparents or your parents call Fort Stockton "Comanche?"

Thank you for your comment, and if you find out anything more please add it in.

Orlando Guerrero

8/26/2018 01:41:50 pm

My mother, Antonia Aguilar, was born in “El Comanche” /Fort Stockton in 1896. She married Ventura Guerrero in Marathon Tx in 1925. Our family referred to Fort Stockton as El Comanche up until she passed away on 1983.

chacho Gonzales

10/3/2011 07:11:33 am

my grandparents Senon and Santos Chavarria refered to the town of Ft. Stockton as Comanche. having worked on several local ranches as a youngster i recall alot of older ranch hands and sheep shearer calling Stockton, Comanche. i asked my father, Valente Gonzales Sr. why they called town like this and he thought that it was because of the Comanche Springs. my understanding is that the springs got thier name from the Comanche Indians who watered thier horses and animals there. i heard the town called Comanche by both white and hispanic people. i guess it was called Comanche until the fort was erected. i never thought much of it until now. Comanche or Ft. Stockton, it has always been home for me.

Antonio Franco

10/4/2011 07:39:33 am

Thank you for your interesting addition to the discussion on Comanche.

By the way, your grandfather may be listed in the family page for Severiano and Rita Chavarria. http://www.familiasdeterlingua.com/chavarria---severiano-y-rita-ramirez.html

They are my great grandparents. If their 16th child, Senon Chavarria, is your grandfather, then you and I are cousins.

We have information on some of the Chavarria's on that page but not all. Bob Wirt and Louisa Madrid are working on major research on the Chavarria family. But until they finish the only info on your part of the Chavarria family is missing. Maybe you could supply some of this information to Familias de Terlingua. We do have a photo of Senon Chavarria on horseback, but that is all we have.

ayda pena Perez

10/10/2011 06:57:38 am

Keep the comments coming.These bits of history from different families is great for sharing.My Tio Nicolas(Pena)Garcia who died at 102 years of age,told me that the Indios(Commanche or Apache?)would travel through underground caves to get to the Commanche Springs to water their horses.This was done to avoid the posted Soldiers near-by.When the FS swimming pool was being repaired,there were underground caves discovered that connected to the springs.Tio Nicolas also mentioned the Indian paintings on the walls in caves about the Marathon and Sanderson Highways. I was never able to pinpoint the area.Tio Nicolas was a mason and built the sandstone tables that are still standing at Nunez Park in FS. Ayda

Debbie

10/21/2021 09:16:06 am

I remember Tio Nicolas. He was my grandfather's brother, Apolonio "Chapo" Garcia, who died in 1980. I am trying to figure out who their mom and dad was. Is there any way you can help me with this information?

Guy Garcia Franco

4/26/2022 10:20:45 pm

I have an account with ancestry I do have some information maybe if the three of us get together and swap numbers Nicholas Garcia was my grandfather my mother is Anita Pena Garcia Franco

christy cloud

5/23/2022 04:50:51 pm

Hi Ayda, I was going down a rabbit hole on Ancestry.com which led me to your post. My Great Uncle is Manuel R Nunez who the park is named after and your Tio built the tables for. He is my mother (Mary Jo Nunez), father (Jose Nunez) brother. I have visited that park 3 times and enjoy the FS history so wanted to share the little bit I know.

chacho gonzales

10/14/2011 09:32:28 am

on october 26,1927 Senon Chavarria married Santos Silvas in Alpine Tx. they had 3 children Pablo, Cleotilde, and my mother Dolores. my uncle Paul married Kathrine Scott and had one child Pauline. My aunt Cleo married Ramon Gonzalez and had four children Ramon Jr., Faustino, Luz Maria, and Roberto. My mother married Valente Gonzales and there are two of us. My sister Sylvia Ann and myself Valente Jr. most people know me as Chacho. yes we are primos, i will talk with my family and take notes so we can correctly post some of our family's history. i do know that my grandfather Senon past in 2-25-81 and is buried in fort stockton. my grandmother Santos past on 1-25-2008 and is buried next to my grandfather. this is very exciting, i want to learn the history of my mothers side of the family. thanks again. i will be keeping in touch.

Antonio Franco

10/16/2011 04:39:44 am

Thank you Ayda, for your contribution. Is your tio Nicolas already in Familias de Terlingua?

ayda Pena Perez

10/22/2011 05:03:56 am

Tony My Tio Nicolas was my father(Emeliano Pena)brother.Their mother was Guadalupe Pena Garcia.Different fathers.Nicolas Garcia was married to Paulina Pina sister to Sotero Pina who owned Pina's Store.Their sister Angelita Pina was married to Apolonio Garcia.I have a group portrait of Guadalupe and her daughters and my father which I will submit under the Adislado and Guadalupe Pena in Familasde^Terlingua.Ayda

Teresa Guerra Cadena

7/18/2016 12:37:03 pm

Hi iv been reading and came across Pina my moms mom is margarita Pina does anyone know her or are related moms father was Cresencio Guerra
And a son Eliaz Guerra any info would be great. Thanks

Joe Baeza

11/23/2011 06:23:07 am

I was born in Imperial and raised in Fort Stockton between 1954 and 1972. I distinctly remember some of my family members (aunts, uncles) referring to Fort Stockton as "Comanche". The majority of the "old timers" were born in Mexico across from the Big Bend area.

Tino Acosta

12/25/2011 06:57:58 am

My Father Lazaro Acosta, who was born at Redfort in May of 1885, always refered to Ft Stockton as "El Comanchi" and alway would put "El" first.Several of my uncles on my mother' side would do the same thing, always putting "El" I never learned much about my father's life. I know he worked on rahches all his life. He worked on a ranch about 30 miles south of "El Comanchi" He used to refer to it as the E.L. Ranch. My father was laid of as the ranch was sold. That was around the mid 1940's At that time I. along with my whole family were living there. After that my Dad for Dr. Sebley's ranch for many years.

Tino Acosta

12/25/2011 06:57:58 am

Antonio Franco

6/4/2013 10:45:42 am

Tino Acosta, my apologies. I just noticed that I must have replied to your comment by duplicating it accidentally instead of inserting my reply. Those were very long and busy days updating the fast and furious flow of information that was coming in.

Let me say that I appreciate your comment and again apologize for the mistake.

Antonio Franco

6/4/2013 10:56:10 am

Note: Manuel Trevino has just posted a comment about "Comanchi" on the Facebook FdT page. We thought it was appropriate to copy it here because not only does it add to the discussion about Comanchi but it introduces some new and interesting points such as the idea of the boarding point by rail with cars provided by the sugar companies to bring the workers to the sugar beet fields. That is a topic worthy of its own discussion!

Mr. Trevino also touches on the history of Grandfalls, TX and also of the Hinojos family there. Two more topics for discussion. We encourage our readers to read his points and add to the discussions.

"My mother knew Fort Stockton as Comanche. She is 96 years old and remembers that was the boarding place for families coming north to Colorado to work. Great Western Sugar would provide the rail cars and bring them to Colorado. My familia settled in Fort Collins Colorado that was there destination for sugar beet work. The Subia's also boarded at Comanche and wound up in Loveland Colorado just about 6 miles from Fort Collins as well. My family had land in Grand Falls. They had a ranch or ranchito they lost when the well dried up. Many Hinojos are buried there in Grand Falls, Texas."

sonny subia

3/25/2015 02:16:27 am

that is correct ...my family moved to Greeley Colorado from loveland. I remember my father Tiburcio calling Ft Stockton Comanche.. Westill have family in Ft Stockton

Teresa Guerra Cadena

7/18/2016 12:42:50 pm

My grandfather cresensio Guerra
Would leave his family and drive to Colorado for working the fields
And in 1934 he died in los animas Colorado any info will be great I been searching for moms family since 2006 and can't find them

Barbara Brandin-Martin

7/6/2013 06:54:28 am

Just to set a record straight if possible.
Henry Eugene Loyless was married to Barbara Jean Brandin
had 2 sons. Timothy Jay Loyless born in Gallup, New Mexico 12/16/56
Michael Alan Loyless born in Oceanside, California 4/22/60
Second wife was Dawn don''t know her last maiden name.
they had one son name Stacie Loyless in Texas, a school teacher

Sandra Loyless is the daughter of Roy and Joyce Loyless, Henrys
older brother.
Henry Eugene Loyless passed away on Feb.28, 2013

Marisa Chavarria Singh

3/3/2014 02:17:55 am

I am a descendent of Severino and Rita Chavarria, my grandma was Maria Morales Chavarria and I lived with her. She would take me to my grandfathers Pablo Chiquito Chavarrias gravesite often and we also visited Great grandma Rita's. In your records it says you don't know where she buried because of the lost records. I know where she is and I visit her gravesite to this day. I would like to share a pic and info on her gravesite with FDT soon. Please contact me.

Gloria Guerrero

7/29/2014 05:37:04 am

My grandpa was Jesus Mata married to my grandma Francisca Valenzuela. They had 12kids which are Nolberta Mata born feb. 4, 1939 whiich she lives in Herford texas, Elario Mata born May 11, 1941 he has past around 1978 but lived in Anton Chico New mexico, Alvino Matta born july 8, 1943 he has past in 1995 he lived in leveland texas, not sure which one of them are older they were born between 1944 to 1953 Willie Matta lives in Plains texas, Maria Matta ( Martinez) past away in 1988 lived in Oddessa texas, Adladiea Matta ( Charles)lives in Seagraves texas,Leanadra Matta ( Martinez) lives in Oddessa Texas, Angelita Matta ( Gamez) born Oct. 1, 1954 lives in brownfield texas, Jessie jr. Matta born Jan. 5, 1956 lives in Anton Chico New Mexico, Mikey Matta born jun. 13, 1957 lives in Amarillo Texas, Rosie Matta ( Vasquez) born July 8,1960 lives in brownfield texas , Nancy Matta( Ponce) born feb. 17, 1962 lives in Plains texas

James Molina

9/29/2014 02:45:10 pm

My Grandmother was Maria Lorenza Mata, Her father was Juan Mata, married to Luciana Gonzales. All were from the Presidio area. My grandmother was born in Shafter, TX. and my great grand father Juan was born in Balmoreah, Tx. I'm thinking there may be a family connection somewhere just haven't found it. I would like to discuss this more with you and see if our families do connect.

James Molina

9/29/2014 02:40:11 pm

My mom was born in Ft. Stockton in 1945. Growing up I always heard my grandparents mentioning "Comanche, Texas" but since I have been doing a lot of extensive genealogy research...non of my ancestors were born or lived anywhere close to Comanche, Texas. I never thought of Ft. Stockton having a second name. It all makes sense now! Thanks for the post!

Gloria Guerrero

9/24/2015 06:07:37 pm

James, sorry haven't responded haven't been on this site in a while..but for sure if you want to talk to see if we are related some how.

Emma Warne

3/8/2016 08:26:37 am

Doroteo Franco

1/2/2018 08:57:14 pm

My Mother, Guadalupe Subia, was born in Presidio in 1919 and grew up in Marfa before moving to Colorado City, Texas. I worked for Petty Ray Geophysical, an oil seismograph company, in the early 70’s. I worked at Ft. Stockton and surrounding area for a few years. My mother would often tell me that we had family at Comanche, but it would be many years later before I realized she was talking about Ft. Stockton. I don’t recall her ever using Ft. Stockton.

ysmael ramos

11/7/2018 11:52:22 pm

Doroteo Franco my grandmother Eulalia Subia Pena was born in Shafter in the early 1900, but made her early life in Ft. Stockton. She married Ysidro Pena also from Ft Stockton. In the mid 40s, she moved to Big Lake and one other brother did too his name was Felipe Subia and two remained in Ft Stockton, one was Manuel. My mother still lives at 89 years old. I will have to ask her if she knows your mother. Did your mom ever talk about La Pazuela? We may be related and then maybe not. I live in San Angelo.

Jack Galindo

5/13/2019 04:56:49 pm

Very interesting and thanks for the research. My mother Pauline who was born in Balmorhea and lived in Pecos all of her life used to call Ft. Stockton "El Comanchi". She was always saying so and so vive en El Comanchi or that when she was little they used to go to El Comanchi. I always wondered where the hell El Comanchi was. Now I know.

Author

Antonio Franco - not a historian, not even an amateur historian. My curiosity stems from my college studies of sociology. I claim no credentials as a historian - that has never been my strong point. This is a personal observation with an invitation for others to share their thoughts or research.

Comanche

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